Interview with Paul Dunn

As synchronicity strikes again, I am delighted to share this conversation with Paul Dunn. I am grateful to our mutual friend, Allan Pease for connecting us, and also indirectly, Barbara Pease for her valuable guidance.  Allan is of course, your co-author for the book, Write Language.

Paul, Allan puts us in touch because he tells me you are an expert in, "communicating what matters in ways he is not." Unlike Allan (who echoes power is the palm of your hands), he highlights you are a master in connecting with people through unseen acts of giving. How you evolved into a luminary is to be our focus.

Sure! Well, Allan and I go back so many years. Here is an interesting inside story: I wrote the book originally called, “Write Right”. Allan loved it so much, he approached me because he wanted to buy it. He only changed one word in the book. I said, "Fine!". He offered to put my name on it.  The rest is history. We have had a long association. Allan is the doyan of the speaking profession, not just in Australia, but also in the rest of the world, and an amazing human being.

Absolutely! Allan has presence.  He is an excellent teacher because he gives personal attention. Now, I am drawn to you because you empower people to make their own decisions about connection.  I relate as I guide people to act on what makes them feel most alive.  This often involves finding courage to face fears, change self- perception and/ or path.  

In what ways has the trajectory of your life changed? After all, you have been involved in so many things. You not only describe connections.  You also guide people to innovate while creating new habits, impact and connection.  

Well, if we were conducting this interview in the B1G1 office in Singapore, the word connection would be right above me.   Connection is particularly meaningful now in this age of disconnection. Kids are often more connected to their phones and texting than to their family.  They forget about more natural connections.

So very true. These days, so many things exist to hijack our attention - phones, Internet, other technologies. Love that you imply we need to disconnect from these and focus on the natural world to recall the feeling of deeper connection.  So, how did you get into your line of business?

To connect the dots, I think my life is one of amazing luck, actually.  I grew up in a tiny village of Dover in the U.K.  My dad was a miner.  I went to study in London. At 21, I was headhunted. I became one of the first 10 for HP in Australia. This is before most people reading this were born most likely. That was amazing to be able to hang out with Dorians of the electronic business as it was then, not the computer business.  Bill Hewlett and David Packard, and learn about all those things they felt was part of building a great company. Hewlett-Packard (HP) launched the computer thing. I was running that then. I loved connecting. I started one of Australia’s first computer companies in 1973. It became incredibly successful in its day. At one stage, it was doing 23 million. Not that it’s about the money, by the way. It’s all about the way you can add value to the people you are very privileged to serve.

Now, it grows clear that a sense of connection is not only about physical places and people. It's also about intangibles. It touches on intuition.

Yes. I think that wherever we are, we need to realize connection is the result of critical moments in our life… pivotal moments when we made certain decisions without thinking.

Tell us more...

Okay.  Picture it: one day, in 1980 I was asked to a seminar in Brisbane where I was living. I was literally dragged to this event to hear a speaker named James ("Jim") Rohn.

Jim Rohn echoes a version of true success must be attracted not pursed.  Love that idea. 

Well, while I was asked to go hear Jim Rohn speak, I was overseeing over 150 people. What did I need with a seminar? I had no idea even what a seminar was. Then, my response to the experience surprised me: I was absolutely transfixed. It was like a time tunnel. "Wow!" I thought to myself. "That’s what I can do, I can speak and move audiences to new levels of understanding." I called my colleagues to let them know I was leaving.  They thought I was kidding!

You were clearly listening to your intuition, ready to step outside your comfort zone.

I never looked back.  In April 1^st,1981 I left HP and created the Results Corporation. By Dec 23, we were serving 23,000 small businesses in Australia and the world. In 1992, I morphed that to focus on the accounting profession. Not that I am an accountant, but I thought they need to wake up and still do, by the way.  I had this crazy idea of saying, look if you are being honest if you had to say what you do, what would you say? They said, “We report on history.” And I replied, how much better would it be if you were able to totally flip that and be able to help select clients create history? So, I launched Results Accountants Systems.  We had the privilege of working with over 17,000 accountants worldwide.  They absolutely loved it.  Life-changing for them and certainly life-changing for me.  In 2000, I sold that, went to live in France, ostensible to retire.  That was challenging for me. So in 2003, I started speaking again.  

Love that retirement is increasingly a transition for people to forge or discover new kinds of connections.

That's right. Making connections never stops, but how we view them and how conscious we are, changes.  Now, in 2006, I was at an event in Bangalore, India, as a participant, not speaking at it. A friend asked me to dinner.  We went to a sad place called the Taj Mahal. I met Pastor Silva. I asked him what brings you here? Story of connection. Silva said, 4 years ago my church asked me to go to this island. I initially went to Sunday school 18 months ago, with 12 kids. I saw the 2004 tsunami. We did not have too much time. Let's play a game--- run to higher ground. We watched the church and parents of these kids washed away in the tsunami. We spend the last 18 months with the kids. It took 4 months to get off the island.  We wandered in India looking for somewhere for a place to live. After a while, we found a place, but now it's getting pretty critical. We need to pay for shelter, for the kids to go to school, pay for their books, food. It cost $3000. He said, "your friend, who introduced us, is helping." Then I said, "if you or anyone from here heard this would have said what I said- it's fixed. Done."

What an amazing, life-changing story! Invites us all to recall how it feels to empathize, to imagine vividly how it feels to be in another person's shoes.

Yes. Imagine this: 4 months later, Pastor Silva went to an email café, and emailed me in broken English. He sent me some photos, 4 actually. The first was a long shot of the tiny house. The second shot was a one room place, where kids were eating food.  The third showed the 12 kids doing their homework with their new school books. The fourth shot changed everything for me. The photo showed they had written Paul Dunn Home in tall letters about a foot tall outside the home.

That kind of connecting is like a skipping stone on water. It happens between the words, between emails, between the lines. It's a feeling of appreciation that knows no time or space.

Connecting is felt here for sure. 

What did you realize at that pivotal moment?

At that very moment, I realized something deep. If you had asked me just before that point, what is business about, I would have said, well, my whole life has been running on two things;  adding extraordinary value to the people you are priviliged to serve and having fun. I never worried about the numbers. They seemed to come anyway.

Curious how so many people are taught to be preoccupied with numbers and forget the power of connection. 

Hmm. Well, at that moment, I felt there is a literal obligation that we have to do whatever we can help others who, through no fault of their own, are in different circumstances than ourselves. 

It feels like the deeper revelation about connection is about selflessness.  Does this remind you or any peers or mentors?

It's kind of like with Richard (as in Sir Richard Branson). Go back 9 years ago and you ask him, "What's your thing?" He would’ve said: "to get up every morning to disrupt industries that need disrupting and have fun doing it."

Talk to him now, and he says the same two things as well as to make a real difference in this world. When you get that third piece, it's like the RAS (reticular activating system).  You know about that from Allan and Barbara Pease and the cool brain research that is presented as part of their latest book, The Answer.  

Yes. Love that Pease book! Also get great insight from Richard Branson's Autobiography, Losing my Virginity (How I survived, had fun and made a fortune doing business my way).

Even without reading that book, you notice the universe has this interesting way of making us aware of other people who have the same revelation we do. Consider the example of cars as well. As soon as you buy one, all of a sudden, you see the same vehicle everywhere. They have always been there, but you just did not notice them before.

Yes! I love the car analogy. Seeing a particular vehicle is also something that happened with increasing frequency to me before it entered my own experience. Love the revelation that part of you cannot feel whole without connecting to something larger than yourself in an altruistic way. Does anyone else stand out to you as shaping or deepening your sense of connection?

Indeed. Another person who came across my radar was Masami Sato.

What a lady! What a story! She is really onto something cutting edge that connects on a universal scale. I invite everyone to read her book Giving Business: Creating Maximum Impact in a Meaning-driven World.

She was someone I was mentoring at the time.  During our mentoring session in 2007, she got this amazing idea: She said, 'I am imagining a different world. Can you imagine this- every business transaction relates something great in our world.' Like what? I said. Well, like you go buy a plasma tv from Harvey Norman on account of who you want better vision. If you bought that, how about someone who could not see could get the gift of sight? I went oh wow!  Imagine having a cup of coffee and while you drink it, and a kid gets life- saving water? Imagine someone buys your book. and a tree gets planted. I replied- that is the best idea I have ever heard. Can I be your mentor for the rest of your life? That took my understanding of connection to a whole new level.

This B1G1 vision feels truly like one of the best ideas ever. It's about giving life to and grounding interconnection on a massive scale. How did this idea take shape on a practical level? Where does the project stand?

Well, it took us 3 years to figure out how to do it and we founded the company as B1G1. So far, the business owners or businesses that are members of B1G1, we have created 161,000,000 giving impacts in our world. That is on track to be 1.6 billion.  We call these smiles.

B1G1 is one of the most extraordinary ideas I have come across as well, and it crosses my radar due to hearing about you. Funny though, it's not necessarily something everyone has heard about. It presents a vision of success that involves a lasting connection. What does success feel like where you are sitting?

It's certainly not about what you have around you. It’s not about shiny objects. Its about something bigger.

How about expanding on this...

Three years ago, on Sept 23, the United Nations (UN), Paul Polman (from Unilever),Mary Robinson, and Richard Branson was there. Branson said, "This is the first time the world body acknowledges something really important: governments are not the bodies that change our world, its businesses that change our world. That’s why I am here-- to launch the Sustainable Development (Global) Goals. 17 targets we have to hit as responsible people by 2030 to eliminate poverty and recognize diversity on this planet.

This reminds me of when I was one of the original founding members of the Space Generation Forum (SGF). Youths from across the globe attended UN meetings and lobbied with the intention of supporting the peaceful uses of outer space and earthly uses of related space technologies. We spoke about focusing more attention on using technology to benefit sustainable development and the issues listed on the global goals mentioned above. Larger global impact requires a collective shift in priorities.  

New connections are definitely happening in different arenas. 

It feels like more people are experiencing a change of heart or awakening to a new way of seeing this world.  We see new kinds of cooperation emerging.

That's right! B1G1 gets down to grass roots. At that level, it's very interesting- redefining success as a race. On the way, I see other things, I spoke to a woman on the Sunshine Coast, where Allan is. By all accounts, she is very successful. She works in real estate. She found B1G1, and had a transformation. She realized as passionate as she is about real estate, I need meaning and purpose in my life.  It's this sense of belonging.  In fact, one of the things I am very privileged to do is do TedXtalks. One of the great things about doing TedXTalks is meeting other speakers. I met Brene Brown. Her talk, The Power of Vulnerability has over 23,000,000 views.

Love Brene Brown! Listening to Shame is another of her life-transforming talks.

Brown says connection it's why we are here.  Itis what gives meaning and purpose to our lives.  That underscores this human need we have to do this. There exist some brilliant books about this. For example one of the best: Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind by Yuval Noah Harari.  It normally talks about how we came to be here. Connection is really the key to it all, I think.

Agree whole-heartedly. It’s a revelation I have had in my own life. 

That you refer to Brene Brown is another synchronicity.  As the result of watching her Ted talks, like I have read all of her books. I really respect the work she does: she brings very sensitive issues into the public sphere and encourages people to feel comfortable with subjects we typically hide from ourselves. 

That's right. 

She echoes connection is deepened through being open and transparent. So, you raise the topic of Belonging. In Brown’s book, Daring Greatly, she goes into this is a lot of depth.  She says it takes courage to connect and connection somehow makes us feel vulnerable.  Although people are widely taught to fear vulnerability, Brown says "what makes you vulnerable makes you beautiful." She reminds us strength is found in talking about what evokes discomfort because we feel free. She talks about  belonging as related to something that enables us to feel part of something greater than ourselves. This enables us to feel lighter too.

That is it! It's not about me. It's not about you. It's about all that and more.

It’s a feeling, I am getting, a vibe off you related to this B1G1 project. It's heart-warming and heart-opening.  Many people have not yet able to put their fingers on what they seek or crave. Yet, they feel something is missing in their lives, something they are still hoping to figure out. 

In this light, what makes you feel most alive? It may be more than one thing.  This would give readers a bit more insight into the real Paul Dunn, get to the heart of you, what drives you.

Look at the physical things I do. Connection, meaning and purpose could come from going to the gym every morning because you are connected to yourself. You cannot connect with others until you connect with yourself. 

I feel enormously lucky. I am to talk with an audience of businessowners in Perth this week. How amazing is it, how privileged is it from me, to get on stage and be able to take a group of people from a particular level of understanding to a new level of understanding.  The only way you do that is by connecting with them. It’s as simple as that.  The funny thing is, Allan Pease, whom you mentioned earlier, knows all about this.  Very few people can connect with people like Allan does.  One thing that is very interesting- speakers have to be aware of this---you are there in front of a group, you are a God if you like, people are looking up to you, I never think about it that way. Yet, then, you are in a hotel room all on your own. Unless you are connected to yourself, you are lonely. Just look at entertainment industry...

Who are your other mentors?

Ron Taki was an early mentor. He said, "Paul, you really should speak." I said, "Really?" "Yes!- Do you get butterflies?" I said, "Yes." I love that he taught me the secret is to get butterflies flying in formation. It took me 32 years to get the butterflies flying in formation in my head. Until recently, I would be in front of a reflective surface, talking to myself, for them for them for them! Several times. So that I could get the focus off me and onto them. 18 months ago, I was sitting at a table and the heavens opened. The two kids were here. I was catching up with email and I was invited to watch a 3 min video from Norweigan govenment. It opens on a pure white environment. Huge guy walks on from side of screen. He is the ultimate Harley rider. His arms are covered in massive tattoos, nose rings. He looks scary. On left hand side of screen, no judgement involved but this is the only way I have to describe it- an eccentric woman enters.  Other women enter. Everyone starts hugging. Nothing sexual. Ministry of Diversity presents message. We all are one. That’s it. That day, I realized when I was saying “for them, for them, for them," I felt I was distancing myself from my audience. Now I say, "for us for us, for us...." This acknowledges I am part of this learning process.

Fabulous story! Butterflies are a universal symbol of getting in touch with what enables us to fly. The government of Denmark did something similar in a video entitled All That we share.  More countries are getting on board as well, getting involved in unifying initiatives.

Wherever I look, these days, there is that stuff. It's about the tiny little things. In Singapore, for instance, the MRT train arrives , takes me to the office very efficiently. When I used to take the bus, I would always smile. They would start the whole process. Just imagine for a moment if everyone smiled at everyone else. For me, its what we are here to do.

How would you relate this back to B1G1 and the evolution of business?

B1G1 takes this to a slightly different level. How great is it that we can do some kind of transaction, and not need not be monetary one. It could be meeting each other or, each time I send you an email, a kid gets access to education.  What’s great is to understand, yes, we can connect one-on-one, and then, through all sorts of other mechanisms, we can connect with people and impact the lives of people we are never going to meet.

Extraordinary! The B1G1 slogan: Connect, create impact and see things differently stands out to me. Where did this come from?

Great question. Look at what we do not do. We do not use the word charity. Back in early 2000, when Masami had this idea, we said "okay, let’s look at this non-judgementally." Charities kind of do that. We realize though, that in every poll you see, almost everybody has either had a bad experience or knows of someone who has. We realized we had to do things differently.

And how do you do that?

We talk about the joy of giving.  Among our projects, you never see faces of emaciated children meant to evoke guilt. You never us use words like donate.  You never see our B1G1 business members saying “a percentage of our profits go there.” You never see a chief executive presenting a big check to B1G1. As the result of us, a kid got access to education. We are about giving smiles.  For example, you will see things like, “As the result of doing business with us, we protected Orangutan habitat." There are 600 or so projects (the board rejects 9/10 by the way) are pretty high impact projects people can get involved in. This allows us to be human.

I noticed earlier this way I was speaking at an accounting conference in London. 6500 Accountants. Accountants and businesses like to be at the forefront of what is being disrupted. They like to be  at the cutting edge.  I was asked what is the next best thing? People is the next big thing. Xero is a big thing. They came out at their conference with artificial intelligence but point out humans produce that. Their new Hash Tag- “Human.” We are getting it.

Why is this getting this wider 'human connection' important?

Recall the global financial crisis. That was a watershed. Look at what's going on in parts of America or other parts of the world. We ask, 'is that stuff really happening?' As we see this is not just happening to one person, that we are all affected, we really are getting it.

Has anyone in particular had a profound impact on your understanding of the human connection?

Neale Donald Walsch.  In his books on Conversations with God (not religious book as you likely know)...

I have read them all. They are brilliant! The conversations cover topics of universal relevance. 

Yes. Well, I have spent time with Neale in Ashland, Oregon. He is a “We are one” sort of person. In essence he says, sadness is just so we know what happiness is. The reason we look at a landscape and see mountains is so we can also see the valley, tell the difference. It is very interesting to see how we look at things and very difficult sometimes not to be judgmental, incredibly difficult.  I think once we get that all of these things exist for a reason, if just we become aware, oh my gosh-what is the lesson? What is the gift?

Asking those kinds of questions changes how we see ourselves. Seeing everything and everyone as a blessing does change the way we see the world and function in it.

By the way, I love that your TedX Talks echo the deep joy that is felt from sustainable giving.

You have seen them? Really? Wonderful!

Another thing that stands out in your talks,  is how you present information. You state that you do not intend info presented to be judgemental. You simply offer data for audience reflection, so they reach their own conclusions.

Yes.

How do you see a domino effect happening? B1G1 is expanding. You also speak about small and large businesses  in your talks and which are taking steps to do greater good. Do you see we have to have tsunamis and global crisis or harmful situations for people to wake up to the power of connection?

No. I think adversity simply occurs. We do not have to have tragedy. Look at B1G1. Recall the term 'hockey stick' if you look at growth in things. People are also talking about topics now they did not used to discuss openly. 

That is encouraging. It's as if people are finding courage to explore reasons behind their personal and socio-cultural taboos, why they adopt and adhere them.

People only ever do what they are ready to do. I also am in awe of how women do things. It doesn’t mean men do not do equally great things but men have to work at it. Women are able to show us some interesting things. Thankfully great changes going on in that area.

Indeed Women are more emotional in nature and we are seeing them in more leadership roles as well as in pivotal roles in the background.  We each have a part of play in creating connections.

I see great changes occurring in the world over as the result of deeper connections.

One last question- what kind of advice or insight would you like to leave with our audience to invite people to view themselves and their lives in a new way?

Wow! Well, there are so many things, no one thing. As we back track through this interview, we see many things. I have this book called Gratitude journal. Every day begins with this and ends with that. This ability to be grateful and at the same time as curious about everything else, underpins everything. You realize you are just a tiny speck somewhere. But wow! How great is it to actually be here experiencing this life.

Also, what else amazes me, when in B1G1, we go on study tours, we look at the impact is what is happening. It absolutely amazes me. You see kids in the direst of circumstances and they are smiling. There was this one area in Kenya where they had visally-impaired (blind) kids. “Sam Well” is 14 was kept in a room by his parents until he miraculously walked and found this school. He reached out and found my face. I say to him, Sam Well, how do you deal with this apparent disability? He says “What disability? I see the world, experience the world...by the way, would you like to hear me play my keyboards?" So, he gets them out and does the Stevie Wonder thing. Look at where he is coming from. He says "I am here, I am grateful." That is a great lesson.

What it echoes is that the simple things in life mean the most and so often these are overlooked.

Exactly. I call this The Power of Small.

Love your message that small business can make a mighty difference in the wider world. It's like the size of our heart grows based on getting involved in projects that touch lives. I feel your message is to cherish every moment and everyone in some way.  Thanks for sharing these life-transforming stories and revelations with our audience.

You ask me questions I have not been asked and I express responses spontaneously in ways I can never offer again in exactly the same way.

Invite our readers to research B1G1 and other individuals and projects mentioned in this article. We each make a difference by connecting with the wider world. This begins by deepening the connection with ourselves. Why we exist hits us when we awaken to see the world differently. 

As Marcel Proust echoes: "The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes"